{mod post} how far?

[zuckonitkinkeme.livejournal.com]

i didn't want to make this decision based on my own personal preferences so i offer you a poll!

please try and spread the word about this because i think it needs to be seen. i'm aware i should have done this at the beginning but i just need to know how the majority of you feel.

i assume by now everyone is aware that the movie is based on real people. however, there have been a couple of prompts that bring real people in connection with mark, eduardo etc. who weren't in the movie and therefore, we have no 'characterisation' for. how comfortable are you guys with having them included in prompts?

(people like priscilla chan and real life!chris hughes for example)

there have been a couple of prompts where mark and eduardo go and see the movie - and the 'actors' end up still being andrew and jesse. that's a fine line because it could imply the mark and eduardo in the fic are then the real life mark and eduardo.

please note; this is NOT about RPF. these people are not the cast/crew - they are just people who happen to know the real life people this movie is modelling itself alongside.

[Poll #1679624]

Comments

[kal-ella.livejournal.com]

i always live by this motto on the internet: if you don't like something, just scroll

as long as no one's planning on facebooking this site to mark, chris, etc., i think it's fine

[(Anonymous)]

this meme is about the social network and associated rpf - not about the real life mark or the real life eduardo.

IMHO i think it should be limited to the people who we saw on screen otherwise this becomes less a meme the movie and more a meme for the RL people they were trying to portray in said movie, surely?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with the entirety of this comment. If they were not on screen, then I don't think those prompts should be allowed.

[anoel.livejournal.com]

TSN is like fanfic of fanfic or RPS of real life and the lines are so blurry that I say yes. I highly doubt it'll become so popular as to overtake Mark/Eduardo, Andrew/Jesse and all the other movie pairings in what's being primary written about. I'd rather be all inclusive. If we've got RPS, might as well include some real people in it as well.

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

I voted yes to all prompts.

First, I have written Priscilla maybe once or twice so I'm definitely biased. /possible conflict of interest

Having moved from lurker in bandom to TSN, I think everyone (with due respect) is fair game. In bandom, often kids of celebrities are mentioned and/or wives and/or sisters not necessarily in the spotlight but are famous by association. In effect, for writers this means a bit of a blank slate and you can create an 'original' character out of the less well known person. (There is admittedly also the risk of random character demonizing to get the more well known characters to ship together, which is why in some fandoms you get the evil gfs so the guys can have great gay sex...however I think it would be really sad to blanket ban since there is the possibility of great stories there too.)

Of course, I can get that people might be uncomfortable about it. Or they don't really care about real!Mark and real!Eduardo - it's a great movie. Personally I find the meta gap a fun thing to play with just like Aaron thought the Facebook story would make a great story. But each to their own and I mean absolutely no disrespect for those who want to stick to the movie. Different strokes xD

I would prefer it if everything can be prompted. Since the story is in effect ongoing. For example, Eduardo's new investment in Qwiki. I used that as a scenario in which Mark could stand up to Eduardo's father. Fine line there I admit but fun because of the idea of "It could be"? Or even mentioning previous media appearances - drawing on more than just TSN for a longer story feels rather satisfying. It is the random things you see (like the porn video prompt) which you then think ding man that would be great for the kink meme, which makes the kink meme a fun place to go to.

My greatest concern is really I'd hate for this to split the fandom because it's been really awesome. It's not a matter of where people like uh me I guess would go because fair enough you can always take it to your own LJ. I made a meta post recently (about an article I read about Mark's dad on raising Mark) that I realized I couldn't post to mark_eduardo because it was about real Mark. Really I just thought it was interesting that fandom was right about Mark having never been spanked um real!Mark that is...which well movie!Mark is based on and wow this can get really confusing. But effectively it means you don't really have anywhere to put it unless you um start your own comm? (I don't want to because it seems kinda like a dick move despite good intentions...rather Mark-esque at the same). This is pretty deep for writing porn in spare time heh.

I'll shut up now because I'm probably not making much sense.

TLDR: Whatever the outcome, I will follow because it's a community decision. Great idea for a poll and muchos respect to mod for putting this out there.

[parka-girl.livejournal.com]

We accept all kinds of TSN related fic at socialnetwrkfic.

[zuckonitkinkeme.livejournal.com]

i can see what you're saying, here.

this decision was never going to be clean cut, i think, because of the people involved and the subject matter. that said, i thought a poll was a good decision maker.

i think the only stipulation i will put my name to is in relation to prompts asking for stuff about facebook; putting things out there that will attract attention. i think that is one thing i would say should be prevented where possible - both for their sake and for ours.

[lakeeffectgirl.livejournal.com]

Maybe the question is better phrased as 'public figures' vs. 'non-public figures'. Actual Mark Zuckerberg is without question a public figure, but Priscilla (as someone who appears to stay out of public eye except when she's randomly photographed with Zuckerberg) is not. Example - even if I used some other random details from Zuckerberg's life in my TSN fic, I would not use Priscilla because she's not a public figure and barely even mentioned in Accidental Billionaires. So, I lean more towards leaving out the non-public figures in their lives, and would advocate writing from the movie standpoint, not real life.

(Possibly unrelated? I think people have been doing some interesting meta things in this fandom, which I'm in no way opposed to as long as it's understood to be meta on purpose.)

[(Anonymous)]

iawtc.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

+1

[(Anonymous)]

This. So hard.

[parka-girl.livejournal.com]

I think there should be no lines between movie and the real world (and that's how I write all my TSN fic). I think it's more fun to pull facts in from as many places as possible (especially when you realize that the movie is far more fiction than fact), without restriction (as such). Of course, I also wrote fanfic with the wives/partners of soccer players, so perhaps my opinions are very unpopular.

Also, real life Chris Hughs is, in fact, a public figure, as is his boyfriend.

And, to be honest, I think the real problems are if/when people post fic other places, other than LJ -- places where these internet savvy folks we write about might find it. We, in fandom, need our fourth wall.

[parka-girl.livejournal.com]

Ugh, typo. Hughes.

[tenonthedot.livejournal.com]

I voted "I don't know" because while it doesn't bother me personally, it might bother someone else and that causes wank and this fandom is so non-wanky. I'm way too concerned with everyone getting along.

But anyways, I personally think the real!Chris Hughes is really, really cute, so I don't mind at all.

[tamanth.livejournal.com]

Yes. It's RPF anyway, whether it's Jesse and Andrew etc or real Mark appearing.
I think we all know the movie took a couple of liberties in telling the story, so I doubt that there's gonna be Mark/Eduardo (real life version) here. And even if there is - it's still no different than Andrew/Jesse. Or Mark/Jesse.

[versa-vulture.livejournal.com]

I know this doesn't say much but I just wanna put it out there.. I actually had an idea for real M/E but was afraid to post it. So, basically we are gonna try and stay clear of the real M/E right? But A/J is ok?

[poose78.livejournal.com]

I think this comm is so awesome and non-wanky, and I would hate to see it get that way over what is already a head-spinning issue. (A movie that takes a lot of dramatic liberties based on a questionably-researched book about real people with their own sets of issues). Or to split into little pieces over what is essentially not the main pairing.)

It is extremely confusing to know where to draw the boundaries, quite honestly. I think as long as everyone continues to be respectful it should be okay to draw on RL/canon/fanon/imagination equally. Like with all stuff, if you don't like it, don't read it. And don't link it, anywhere.

I did think this article was really pretty interesting:

http://symposium.transformativeworks.org/2011/01/the-social-network-fandom-rps-of-professional-rpf/

My two cents. You are all so ace!

[casey_sms.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link - wow there are some academic big names there. Fascinating.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the problem is that it is fanfic made from RPF and because of that it is RPF even if it super-movie-canon-compliant. But writers on this meme borrow shit from real Mark's life all the time. The fencing, his hometown, his middle name, the same of his parents, the existence of his sister, FB specific crap, Chris being gay... None of this is in the movie. In a way we are already writing straight up RPF of real Mark Zuckerberg.

It's perhaps really weird and intrusive and privacy-invasive and the meta-joke just writes itself. Of all the people in the world the person I feel the least amount of pity towards his loss of a privacy is the man who said it is a relic of times gone by.

God, this guy is selling out the private info of all my family and me to some shady corporations and I am supposed to feel bad for writing smutty fic about him that occasionally mention his family? I mean I do but it's the easiest I've ever been able to not feel guilty about it. Hey, maybe it's even a form of non-violent protest against corporate bullshit. I am super at rationalizing this given enough time.

So this is totally a vote to keep it all. It's a vote because it's showing the man, because it's just desserts, because I'm am asshole, because it is impossible to draw the line anyway and because at any mention of the name Priscilla I start scrolling pretty fast because it causes second hand mortification.

[raindropfloss.livejournal.com]

lol I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU JUST SAID TO BE TOTALLY HONEST. It's a fail that commonly comes along with being stupid. So unfortunately, I can't give you a decisive opinion, except that I'm pretty sure the prompts are Mark!wait... Jesse!Mark, and Andrew!Eduardo, in the prompts. So I don't think it's a big deal, and if someone wants to be all "WELL I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD..." about something THEN DON'T.

[(Anonymous)]

I vote keep it all, clearly label when it's about the real people, not the movie characters (and not just a few details borrowed from the real people's lives to widen the canon like anon above mentioned), make sure everything is as un-Google-able as possible, and whoever doesn't like something can just scroll.

[(Anonymous)]

I want to second the comments that are concerned with fourth-wall breaking. I don't know if you want to take steps this drastic, but in my RPF fandom, the KM rules specifically ask NOT to link the RPF people to it. Maybe not using full names together or something? (since they show up on google and google alerts, etc.) IDK. I'm just throwing ideas out there.

And I think perhaps this particular fandom should be extra mindful of the fourth wall (which everyone seems to be, as far as I can tell), since the subjects we're writing about are extremely tech/internet savvy.

Anyway, I'll stop talking now. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone -- not trying to cause wank. /o\

[eosrose]

I tend to think of TSN as an RPF fandom anyway, so I say keep it all. When communities start drawing the sort of lines you seem to be considering drawing, I become frustrated. If the names of familiar members/friends/etc are commonly known, why make up different characters to play those roles? It's jarring.

[zuckonitkinkeme.livejournal.com]

i'm sorry that you've been through this before but this wasn't about consideration on any one thing. this was about people expressing a discomfort to me about certain prompts and i couldn't ignore that.

i think the difference for them is that, as stated above, the 'public figures' are being written about and rightfully so. however, there has been some mention of non-public figures in fic et all and although this is very much akin to an RPF fandom, i had to take into account that some people would be unhappy with the blurring of the lines.

this post was merely to ask the community as a whole to discuss and decide what was acceptable and what wasn't - i didn't want to colour this whole issue with my own personal opinions because that's not fair.

sorry again if this frustrates you. i'm only trying to keep this fair and wank-free D:

[(Anonymous)]

there should be a YAY TICKY BOXES option because that was my only response to this poll. Basically, I don't care either way. I will go with what the comm wants because I love this place regardless and I'm just here for the smut and the lulz, etc.

[black-eyedgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm personally slightly uncomfortable reading fic about the real life versions, or at least the non-public figures, and I say this as someone who reads and writes RPF... No, I don't know what that's about either.

However, my lines are not everyone else's lines, nor should they be. I would be happier, though, if people could make sure to mark prompts and fills as RL versions? Even if it involves Jesse or Andrew, so there's no confusion about whether it's a total RPF, or an RPF/TSN crossover? Of course, now I'm thinking that it sounds bizarre to have a fictional version as the default, but this is a TSN fandom meme first, I think?

Anyhow, these are only my two cents :)

[(Anonymous)]

So, just potentially -- not to troll, but just to push things to a more logical extreme -- if someone were to post a prompt or something that says "Priscilla is a secret Mark/Wardo shipper. Mark finds out. Hilarity and sexy times ensue" it would be okay with most people here?

[(Anonymous)]

It would be okay. Not because I would want to read it but because any line that could be drawn is arbitrary. Where does one stop? Is it okay to write about the Saverin family or Sean Parker's mom or Jessica Alona, the only person connected to this mess who has neither chosen to be part of it nor profited from it in some way?

Where do we draw the line where we respect someone as a private person? Do we make a list of people that we can mention but not make them the focus? Do we make a list of people that we never write about at all? Can that even work?

[(Anonymous)]

My personal opinion on the matter is that writing about Real!Mark and Real!Wardo is the same as writing any other RPF. Jesse and Andrew fics, Jensen and Jared fics, any real people fics. The chance of us being sued is the same. I don't know whether people are seeing this from this angle, but to me it's so clear. Saying that Andrew and Jesse have a romantic relationship is the same thing as saying the real Mark and Wardo have one.
So, if we can write Jesse and Andrew and nobody cares, what is the matter with real Mark and real Eduardo? Maybe there are people afraid of real Mark? Well, he's like every other person, even if he's a computer genius. If he can sue us, all the others we write about could too. That's why we use disclaimers.
Just MHO.